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So for the beginning, if you just want to say your full name. I'm Betty Cork, Women Against Pit Closures. So how did you hear about Greenham College? Originally, there was a notice on the union notice board at work about a day at Greenham, I think it was Sunday,

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and the union was organising transport, so I went down with one of our shop stewards and that was the first time that I experienced brutality against women by somebody in uniform. When it was a horrible day and we were walking around the base, and you know there were slopes and it was muddy and it was slippery,

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and one woman grabbed hold of the fence just so that she didn't run, and I just beat her with a baton in my hand. Who was that? I don't know.

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Before, well before Women Against Pit Closures Pit Camp, I went down with one of our shop stewards from work. Oh, I didn't know that. And so that was the first time, and then they'd got the helicopters going, and they were coming as low as they could, and it was whipping all the...

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Was it 84 then? No, well before. It was whipping all the dead leaves and stuff into your faces. It was horrible, and we all had a candle vigil,

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and we were so cold we were holding our hands and feet over these candles to keep warm. So that's the first time I knew anything about Greenham and the first time that I'd been down. What union was it? And who did you go down with?

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Just one of the shop stewards from work. And how did you travel there? We went down by a coach that the union had organised. Have you ever got in touch with Aggie?

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Because Aggie used to go with us, I know, you know. No, perhaps at the end we can come back to think what else we should do. Because Aggie used to go with us. Yeah.

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It's Aggie and me who went first down with me. I went first down with Aggie. Well maybe if Sarah finishes Betty's story and then comes to you, and then you could bring what coming with Aggie into that,

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and then Sarah can work out who else turned to you. You can go and see Aggie then. Yeah. And how long were you there?

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Just for the day. Just for the day? Just for the day. And what gate you went to?

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I can't remember. Because we sort of were walking round the fence, and it was a huge, wasn't it? Huge fence to walk round.

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Yeah. And what made you go? What made you decide to go? Well I'd heard about Green and Women,

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and far from being a feminist. And I was more or less nosy. Yeah. I just wanted to see what it was like.

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And you read things in the press, didn't you, which you knew you couldn't believe anyway. So it was sort of, well, go and find out then. Put your boots on and go and find out.

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And your long johns underneath your trousers as well. It was a bitterly cold day. That's kind of the thing that's coming through from a lot of people is what they remember is how cold and warm it was.

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Yeah. And did you meet people there as well? Did you kind of talk to the women that were there? Not much, no.

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Not much. We just sort of sympathised with women, particularly the women who they'd beat our hands with because she was all down the fence.

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No, I think we were both just taken and everything. Seeing what everything was doing and everything was happening. Yeah. And how did you feel kind of going down to the camp

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knowing that it was a women-only camp? Were you kind of, not were you in approval of it, but what was your thought process knowing that it was a women-only camp? I thought it was brilliant that women were making a stand

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and in charge of their own lives, if you like, which I wasn't at that time. But, yes, it was brilliant to see all these women. And how they stuck it out, I don't know.

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I think there was just so much admiration for these women that were sort of living down there. Was the hospital shop steward a woman that you went down with? Yeah, I was the branch secretary at the time

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and she was one of the shop stewards, yeah. And was that the only time that you went, just that one time? Just that one time, yes. And how then do you feel it influenced your own politics after that?

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Not an awful lot, apart from, you know, the violence that people in uniform were allowed to get away with towards women, admiration for the women, and knowing that I couldn't do it.

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But still being able to read in the press and thinking, poof, you know, it's all made up, this isn't like women are green and common and that kind of thing. And then did you take that idea any further

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when you did Women Against Pick Closure? Oh, yes, yeah. Yeah, I'd got a real education by then, hadn't I? And how much later was that from when you first went to Greenham?

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Oh, it was quite a long time. It was quite a long time. I suppose 84 was not that long after it, but the pick camp was...

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92. Because it must have been... 93, 92. Yeah.

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So going to Greenham must have been in the early 80s. Oh, yeah, definitely. It was well before the miners' strike. Yeah, maybe two or three years before.

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Because I think, did Greenham start in the early 80s? Early 80s, wasn't it? Because I think I went in 82. Because it were 84 when miners' strike started.

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It were first in Barnsley, weren't it? They came on strike caught in wood. Yeah, that's right. In January.

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Yeah. So it must have been before 84. Yeah. So maybe it was...

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They were on strike a year or two later. And then everything went. And what has been your experience of activism, if any, before Greenham, before you went?

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Just acting within a trade union. Basically an experience of a strike at work, trying to run a strike at work. But I was sort of involved in local politics, if you like.

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But not into it in depth. It annoyed me that we were an isolated community. We couldn't get anything. So I started to agitate about getting some kind of services.

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The kids had to go through wood to go to school because we were a split community. Winter was at the top, Willow Corry at the bottom with the wood in between.

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If you can imagine children trying to go to school in winter through the woods. What village was it? It was on Woolly Edge.

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We were called the Windhill Estate. And then Willow Corry was at the bottom with the Corry Houses down at the bottom. Yeah, so I thought a lot of train of thought.

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Sorry. I did find that before I even went to Greenham I had to sort of get involved very heavily, not in politics,

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but I lived in this horrible two-down little cottage. If you didn't have rats, you had mice. That was the consolation that the old ones used to say. Whenever you've got mice, you don't have rats

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and that sort of thing. And they built a new washery at the Corry. And the agreement was, because there was so much water, they only ran it at night time, not during the day.

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But being as they were, they ran it more or less 24 hours. So I had a baby then and it was a case of putting two kids in a pram, walking down to the next village to my mum-in-law's

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to fill bottles with water, to make bottles and such. And I got so incensed with it all that and we were in Wakefield area then and I sort of bounced into Wakefield Social Services

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with two kids and said, you'd better look after these two because I can't. And they said, you can't do that. I said, you watch me.

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So they said, well, let's come and talk about it. And the result was we got somebody from the Corry coming up shouting, who's that stupid woman who can't make bottles for her kids?

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You were sort of fighting, but you weren't always winning. And then it was about 18 months later, one of the women came down from the bottom row and said, there's no water.

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I said, I know there isn't. She said, well, what are you going to do about it? I said, nothing. It's your turn now.

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You know, you've got a baby. You'll get on with it. And then the kids woke up one morning, they were hopping around the bedroom and said,

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mummy, the floor is really hot. And so I got out of the bed. The house was on fire. Because what had happened every time,

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you know the old set pots that you had in the corner? Mine was adjoined to the next door neighbours. And so when she lit her set pot on a wash day, I used to have to take my kids out

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because the house was filled with smoke. But this morning it was on fire. And I had to get my husband out of bed. And we didn't have a phone box then,

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so we had a farm at the top of the hill. He ran for the fire brigade. And they came. And what had happened was,

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apparently when they built these houses, the beams went across the chimney. And this continual thing and the wind, that's what had got the fire going.

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So they'd sawed up floorboards. And the fireman in charge said, I'll go down the pit. I need to see them down there.

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And they sent this man up. And he said, I'll tell you what. Get a hammer. I said, I haven't got one.

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Well, get your husband to get it. I said, he won't do anything. I said, you know, it's your responsibility to make this floor good again.

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I've got two kids. Get on with it. I sort of got involved in this fight, but not politically.

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But learned me a lot, you know, of a lot of times screeching and shouting. A lot of times screeching and shouting. And in terms of the legacy agreement

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you talked about, kind of how it influenced women against explosives and things like that, how do you feel it has been remembered among people, if at all?

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Well, we used to have fun down at Greenwood, didn't we? You know, the women were brilliant. We were always made so welcome. And we used to have a minibus

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and we used to make a big pan of stew or take bacon and tea cakes and things. We used to make tea cakes, bacon sandwiches and stew.

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And one said to them one day, look, there's loads of stew left. Have you got a pan or something that we can put in?

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And they brought out this pan that must have been used for cooking loads of stuff. But never washed. And they would just put on that.

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Well, at that time, we were horrified to see this. And then one of the women had been arrested so we went to demonstrate outside the police station and while they were there,

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the Greenham women were in the bottle bank getting out bottles and things that they could use. They were all horrified to see this happening. Don't do things like that.

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Which year are we? That was during the strike. During the strike? Yes.

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So 1984? Yes. Because this woman, she'd come and we used to start with bacon and eggs

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and she used to come and say, make me a bacon and egg sandwich, but don't tell anybody. And then another would come.

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It fascinated me. I used to be shocked. They used to be coming out of the wood, weren't they? No, they didn't come up to us.

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It was later, yes. We used to, from 1984 to... You know, when they started, when they closed the... Ninety-two.

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Ninety-three. 1984 to 1993. We used to go regular. Of course, Aggie used to...

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Can you remember when she said to that Bobby, you were a clever swine, she says, do you want to buy a badge? What's that, mine?

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He says, I don't. She says, well, you're a bastard, put them there. You know what I mean? She used to really want...

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You know, Aggie didn't hold back. She held no doubt. You ought to get Aggie because she's... she's fucked, wasn't she?

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And that lasso, that laddo, she was talking to throat fiends. They were from there. She saw a lad in Grahams and she says,

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hey, come here, I know the mother and the father and all. Come on here. Yeah, can you remember that then? What year were you going to?

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Orange Weeks. Orange Weeks. I think we were sort of quite vocal compared to the greener women.

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And sort of, you know, we were here. And one day we actually did take over the Orange Gate. We got rid of the police and took over the Orange Gate. And sometimes I think they must have felt

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that, oh, there's a bloody invasion again. Yes, there were. Because we weren't gentle and quiet. No, but we were noisy and dancing around, you know.

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But they never, ever said out loud to us. And they were always, when we went, they were always glad to see us. Yeah.

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Yeah. You might find some other women who remember them. Yeah, yeah. Because they're interviewing a hundred people.

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Because after that, well, what did they call her? It was me. She was from... Rebecca.

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Yeah, Rebecca. The well-known Rebecca. Her mother, she came from Switzerland. She was lovely.

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Anne thinks she was lovely. Her and I had a violent disagreement. Well, I liked her. She was all right with me.

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Yeah, but she came up to our pit camp, right, and we couldn't have run the camp 100%. Often we needed the men to do a little job or something. And she came in and she said,

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you don't have men in this pit camp. It was a pit camp, wasn't it? You know, we need these men. Do you know what I mean?

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And so she went then and told the men there's no business there. So I just said, right, she'll take the fan now, it's yours that's going, not them. I know what I'd have said to her.

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See, it's our bloody pit camp. So if you don't like it, get off of it. That's what I'd have said, you know. I'm not like her.

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I don't feel we're talking. She's right nice in there, but I... Yeah, but I wasn't nice that day. But I don't think I wasn't to be in there.

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You were, because you said I'd better take her home to my house, and so you took her back with you to your house. Get her out of your way. I don't think that.

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You did. You did, I can remember it. Because I quite liked her. But apart from that...

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She was going to go down the pit with us. And all the other from, what do you call it, she was from the... There were two other women that used to come up regularly from Greenham,

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and they used to do the weekend for us at the pit camp. Which pit camp was that? Grindham. One of them, I think, was called Eileen.

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And they were very supportive. They were very supportive. And it used to give us a weekend off as well. So they used to do the pit camp for us.

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And how many times did you go down to Greenham? We went a lot. We've got a police escort one day, don't we? So 20?

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Oh, yes. Well, you see, there was that space, and I knew, weren't there? Yeah. So we didn't forget them.

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And then in that time, they were organising, other people were organising for people to go down, and I always went on them buses and that when they made a thing right round.

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Oh, Embrace the Base. Yeah, I was there that day, yeah. We went on the bus. Yeah, you know what I mean?

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If they organised out, and I did, she used to go. So, you know what I mean? Yeah. And I'll tell you, me and Arthur had been speaking somewhere

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and we were coming back, and we went there and we were all sat round in a corner, with Arthur being there. And they looked at me and they says,

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bloody Alex Handwick doing sitting pills. And he's like, because I'm all dressed up sitting there. And I think they're going to say,

00:18:31.380 - 00:18:42.460

right, she's something to Arthur. And she looked at me wondering, and she said, bloody Alex Handwick doing sitting pills. I'll never forget that.

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Brilliant. Yeah, they'd been speaking somewhere down there and we called in, because I saw Greenham and I says, come on, let's go see him.

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Yeah. That might have been during the strike then, wasn't it? Eh? Would that have been during the strike?

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No. Wasn't it over Christmas time? No. It was before the second strike.

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It was before the big strike, but it was before 1993. It was in that period. Yeah. You know, in that period.

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That seven years, yeah. Yeah, that seven year period. It was then, yeah. And I mean, we didn't go everywhere,

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but if they were all going off, we went. Or if we used to say, shall we go to Greenham? You know, and I had a minibus, and I drove minibus.

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And we went quite a lot. And Becky, why do you think it's important that Greenham is remembered by subsequent generations? Because I think the women made a stand

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and historically it was something out of the ordinary. And the main thing was they were defending their country, the children and their communities. They weren't in it to bring down a government

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or anything like that. You know, what you're doing is unjust, we don't agree with what you're doing, and we're making our protest,

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and it's a peaceful protest. That impressed me so much, the way they were so quiet and peaceful. And I think it's important that their history is chronicled.

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We try so hard to make sure that ours is. We speak to lots of young people now at universities and colleges doing dissertations, and it's really good because we know

00:20:46.080 - 00:20:57.440

that through them our history is being chronicled. And I think in a lot of ways maybe women of age four, age five, may be overshadowed Greenham.

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And we need to bring it to the front and walk along together with it, chronicling our histories together, like we're doing today.

00:21:06.640 - 00:21:21.740

Why do you think it's been overshadowed? Probably because at the time maybe we didn't understand 100%. Maybe at the period it was,

00:21:21.820 - 00:21:32.900

women should be in the kitchen and at home, not out there doing what they're doing. I mean, the first picket that I went on, my dad even told me,

00:21:33.400 - 00:21:44.160

eggs, that's a strike, that I was going on a picket line. I didn't tell him, you know. And I think a lot of these women were so brave

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because a lot of them left their families at home while they went. And we were of that generation that you're there to cook, clean,

00:21:52.740 - 00:22:03.020

look after your kids, you know what I mean? So it's so important that their history is chronicled. Did you see any children when you were out of the camp as well?

00:22:03.720 - 00:22:10.540

I've never seen a child. No, I didn't see any. Never in all time I've been, I've been a lot. I've never seen a young child.

00:22:11.080 - 00:22:20.660

And I'll tell you what I found in all. They weren't roughies like us, they were middle-class women. You know what I mean?

00:22:21.320 - 00:22:30.800

I mean, when I went all the way, they didn't have time to listen to me. You can't do that. I go, who can't do that?

00:22:31.000 - 00:22:38.140

I'll show you. Yeah. Yeah, there were nearly all middle-class women. Yeah.

00:22:38.340 - 00:22:48.760

Yeah, because when I used to go to, when me and Arthur went to meetings in London and that, and I saw women there that were, they're not coming anymore, you know.

00:22:50.800 - 00:22:58.320

These women. I think as well feminism was a big issue. Yeah. Because we didn't understand feminism.

00:22:58.320 - 00:23:11.040

Well, I'm not saying I individually didn't understand. I think there were a lot of women as well. And some journalists would say, well, are you feminist? Well, if you tell me what a feminist is,

00:23:11.080 - 00:23:18.640

I can tell you whether I am or not. Yeah. Yeah, I still don't think I'm a feminist in the 100% of the word.

00:23:20.100 - 00:23:36.240

I've got a lot of feminist ideas and things, but no, I still don't think I'm a feminist 100%. I'm not a feminist because if a man opens a door for me and I'll say thank you.

00:23:38.080 - 00:23:45.260

Yeah. I don't do that. You know what I mean? Yeah, if you stand there and open,

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I've seen these women and when they've opened a door, when they've opened a door for them, they'll say, I can manage. You know what I mean?

00:23:53.020 - 00:23:59.380

Real broad. I'd still call myself a feminist, but I would still say thank you to somebody who opened a door for me.

00:23:59.900 - 00:24:07.320

People have lots of different ideas about what it means. Yeah, exactly. You know what I mean? I mean, I can stick my corner.

00:24:07.740 - 00:24:16.660

I reckon you're both feminists. Yeah, I do as well. Do you believe in the power of women in a place like this? If we're hanging with people,

00:24:17.360 - 00:24:26.160

like we were all the way when we started seeing, I mean, I can stick up, you know, for myself, to a fella. I'm not scared of him.

00:24:26.820 - 00:24:36.400

But if he opens a gate, a door for me or anything, I'll say thank you. I go along with the idea that we've fought for centuries for equality.

00:24:37.020 - 00:24:51.220

That's fine, but keep the men at the side of you. We don't want women to rise above the men like we've been. You want proper equality in the world, don't you, in a way? Yes, yeah, yeah.

00:24:51.500 - 00:25:12.240

Yeah, but you see, we supported men, didn't we? I mean, a lot of them then thought that their wives couldn't come. But we went. Some of them were grateful because if they saw you,

00:25:12.440 - 00:25:18.560

they used to say, go on then, they're coming, hurry up. You know what I mean? Oh, but do you know what I mean?

00:25:19.380 - 00:25:31.040

I mean, police were swans with them. But I think there again, they'd used Northern Ireland as a battleground and as for dealing with women,

00:25:31.180 - 00:25:41.160

they used Greenham then. And then when we went into court, when Michael Mansfield was stopped and strapped to the streets of Humanae.

00:25:41.480 - 00:25:50.620

They stopped? Using Northern Ireland tactics because all MPs stopped it. Yeah, yeah.

00:25:51.340 - 00:26:00.520

Just to tell them, because when we first were arrested, we got strip-searched. Not if it's terrible.

00:26:00.860 - 00:26:08.820

I mean, proper strip-search. And then when I come out and go telling everybody what they'd done to me, they were really uproar, weren't they?

00:26:09.620 - 00:26:21.940

And I think it was in Front North East. And then they stopped it. Until you were charged. See, we weren't even charged.

00:26:23.360 - 00:26:32.400

So do you think like, if you hadn't been to, if a lot of us hadn't been to Greenham and if you hadn't been to Greenham,

00:26:33.080 - 00:26:42.640

the idea of the pit camps would probably not have come up as an idea? I think somebody who maybe remained nameless came up with the idea.

00:26:44.380 - 00:26:50.260

Yeah. Because I said, we've been in Greenham Common, they're outside there.

00:26:51.220 - 00:27:00.180

I says, we'll have a pit camp here. So it was inspired by Greenham. Yeah, that's where we got it from. They're outside.

00:27:00.760 - 00:27:09.780

We'll stop outside. And was it because you thought it was successful? No, but things were going down. There were no telling about it at all.

00:27:09.780 - 00:27:18.500

Are you meaning the campaign in March too? The campaign was there. And we did try to go down that pit, didn't we? Sarah was meaning like,

00:27:19.020 - 00:27:26.140

did you think, because Greenham was successful, it would be a good thing to do a similar kind of thing? Yeah, I just said,

00:27:26.760 - 00:27:35.520

we'll go down, we'll try that place. And Dot and Billy came, they were good weirs, weren't they? From Lancashire.

00:27:35.520 - 00:27:48.300

And Leslie and her husband used to come. A lot of people come from all over. And you see, then it was getting up to Easter and they were doing this,

00:27:48.640 - 00:27:56.600

and it were dead. You know, we only just got locals. And so we said, we've got to do something now

00:27:56.600 - 00:28:05.680

to bring it back onto the front. So it's delivered. We used to dance around, didn't we? Like this.

00:28:06.020 - 00:28:13.560

All around, you know. With women in the middle. And that, and then and that. The police were living.

00:28:14.520 - 00:28:24.520

One day we'd been quite naughty and the police were obviously ready to make a move and the Greenham women came out of the woods and danced round us

00:28:24.520 - 00:28:34.260

and danced us back to the minibus. That was solidarity. You said you mentioned before you were at Orange Gate. Yeah.

00:28:34.380 - 00:28:44.380

Was it a choice to go to Orange Gate? No, it just happened. We'd just finished and started going round and we saw it, so we went in.

00:28:44.840 - 00:28:58.880

And we'll have this one. We'll make it with it against pick closures. Yeah, we had some lovely times there. That one as well.

00:28:59.060 - 00:29:13.980

So you keep it on an archive, that one. We used to sing, didn't we? And then we had some badges done. As I said, she used to go round to the cops

00:29:13.980 - 00:29:29.680

and try and flog them badges. And that inspector, he'd come to me, he says, oh dear, he says, how long you stuck in? I says, oh, about five days.

00:29:31.500 - 00:29:36.720

Greenham, you mean? Yeah. Greenham and Bobber. He says, five days, I says, oh.

00:29:38.680 - 00:29:42.480

And what was it like camping there? We didn't stop. Oh, you didn't stop. No.

00:29:42.780 - 00:30:01.100

It was a day trip. We really had some good... I know it's awful to say to each other about that woman who was telling us

00:30:01.100 - 00:30:07.900

that her husband had gone away. Oh gosh, yeah. We've got a right story. You might have remembered her.

00:30:08.540 - 00:30:17.360

Funnily enough, she was called Anne and she lived at Greenham and her husband worked abroad and she got herself on the base

00:30:17.360 - 00:30:27.060

and she'd been on the base three or four days before they even found her. And so she said, I knew they'd take me to court and fine me

00:30:27.060 - 00:30:35.420

but I wasn't going to pay the fine because everything in the house was his. So the bailiffs could come and it wouldn't affect me whatsoever.

00:30:36.100 - 00:30:43.640

She said, they didn't send the bloody bailiffs, they sent me to prison. She said, I've never known anything... We went to see Eddie.

00:30:43.860 - 00:30:52.020

We went to see her outside prison. And I've never known anything like it. She said, it was filthy and I'm going like this. Have you seen the muck here?

00:30:52.680 - 00:31:01.500

And she said, they said to me, can we remind you, you're not a prison visitor, you're a prisoner. And she said, I got into Miss Allen

00:31:01.500 - 00:31:08.680

and I thought, oh, we'll change this around because I don't like the way it is. She said, well, everything was bolted to the bloody floor. She said, I couldn't move.

00:31:09.940 - 00:31:19.000

And then on the night, they dropped the flap down and said, would you like something to help you to sleep? And she said, yeah, a cup of tea would be nice, please.

00:31:19.440 - 00:31:33.560

We're not talking drinks, we're talking drugs. But yeah, she was lovely though. We often laugh about her and let the bailiffs come because it's all his stuff anyway.

00:31:33.960 - 00:31:47.100

We didn't tell them we were coming, we just turned up and they went round like Chinese whispers. They were going round. They used to take us on the bunny run, didn't they?

00:31:47.300 - 00:31:52.100

The bunny run. What was the bunny run? The bunny run. We used to go and hide in it,

00:31:52.100 - 00:32:00.980

and there were old trees around it and it was like a little den. But it was in open air. And I think a lot of them might have used it for a toilet at times.

00:32:05.460 - 00:32:15.800

You mentioned about Embrace the Base, that you were there as well, when everybody joined hands around the fire. Well, I went because everybody round here went.

00:32:16.660 - 00:32:21.820

There were a lot of buses that went from here. I don't know. Did you all go? We all got older.

00:32:21.900 - 00:32:32.960

I didn't go with the Barnsley lot, I went with us. I didn't know what unions had gone with, but the Barnsley lot went across,

00:32:33.140 - 00:32:42.640

and we all got older women. And it were a lot. There were thousands of people. Yeah, yeah.

00:32:43.300 - 00:32:57.540

Thousands and thousands. And they went all the way around. So Anne, do you want to say your full name for the recorder, and then I'll get on to your questions as well.

00:32:58.040 - 00:33:07.400

All right. We've told him, yeah. Anne Scargill, Women Against Preclosure. So how did you hear about Greenham?

00:33:10.580 - 00:33:21.580

Well, I don't know how I heard about Greenham Common, but obviously I was married to Arthur, and he was very, very political. And he often spoke about Greenham Common women,

00:33:21.960 - 00:33:33.880

and things like that. So obviously I knew that there were some Greenham Common women, but that's how I heard about Greenham Common women. And when was the first time that you went down?

00:33:35.960 - 00:33:51.800

I went down quite a few times, but it wasn't in the early time, it was later when they were coming and doing things and you could see that they were going into prison for doing things.

00:33:52.960 - 00:34:06.460

And obviously we decided that we'd go and have a look what it were about. Yeah. And that first time that you went, what were your impressions of it?

00:34:07.440 - 00:34:16.520

Well, I felt really sorry for them, actually. And I could see, because I agreed with them to get them yanks out of England. We didn't want them.

00:34:16.520 - 00:34:34.900

And I really, really agreed with them. And I thought, they're doing awful to them, police. And I think that they're doing a good job for us. So that was my first thing of Greenham Common.

00:34:35.300 - 00:34:46.380

And did you see the violence against the women? Yeah, because they were pushing them about. Little did I know that years later, we were going to get some treatment.

00:34:47.700 - 00:34:56.460

Yeah. And you didn't ever stay over, did you? You just went for the day? Yeah, I just went for a day.

00:34:56.640 - 00:35:04.500

They were quite a few from, you know, they did get buses quite regularly. And what did you think of the conditions when you went into the camps as well?

00:35:05.440 - 00:35:19.140

Well, I just thought, here we are in a lovely bed. And I don't like camping anyway, because I don't like creepers. So I felt, oh, I couldn't stay up late.

00:35:19.320 - 00:35:28.000

I couldn't sleep. I'd be up all night, you know. And then I felt sorry for them. But then, when I spoke to them,

00:35:30.340 - 00:35:44.320

what can I say? I found that they were really middle-class women, very intelligent women, you know. And I thought, they must be brave to do this.

00:35:44.480 - 00:35:54.020

And I really, really thought, they are. Yeah, they are. Doing all this to get these damn youngs out. Because we used to sing,

00:35:54.420 - 00:36:05.340

go home, go home, Yankee, Yankee, Yankee soldiers. The women are here to stay here. And we used to sing that.

00:36:05.340 - 00:36:15.920

All Yankee, Yankee soldiers. The women are here to stay. And did you make friends, both of you? Did you make friends with the women on the camp?

00:36:16.320 - 00:36:26.240

Was there women in particular? Yeah, as it came up, I went. What did they call her? There was one called Eileen who used to come to the pit camp.

00:36:27.480 - 00:36:36.860

Everybody knew Rebecca. Until you don't remember Rebecca. I bet if you look for people that you'll find that some... Is it Rebecca Johnson?

00:36:37.140 - 00:36:42.040

Yeah. Yeah. Well, she knows me and her right now. Have you been to her?

00:36:42.080 - 00:36:50.980

No, we haven't. But she's done lots of interviews in general about Greenland. Well, tell her that we've been asking about her, me and Betty. Ann's been asking about her.

00:36:52.060 - 00:37:08.160

I really liked her. In fact, she used to come to our house. Well, I liked her. What did you think of the non-violent direct action that was taking place?

00:37:08.680 - 00:37:17.620

Well, I just looked in and I thought, if he'd have done that, I'd have had a bit to retaliate. When he was coming in my van. Yeah.

00:37:18.200 - 00:37:23.420

Yeah. They're rough, aren't they? You know what I mean? They were rough.

00:37:23.760 - 00:37:32.040

Yeah. And we found out they were rougher. I just thought I was so impressed by these women, sort of how quiet they were.

00:37:32.680 - 00:37:40.900

You know, they didn't react like we did. Yeah. Yeah. It's difficult to understand living like that

00:37:40.900 - 00:37:47.240

and seeing all that violence, how they come. They didn't hit them back. Yeah. They didn't.

00:37:47.280 - 00:37:53.640

They were just like, I didn't push you about. You know what I mean? And I was surprised. Mm.

00:37:55.600 - 00:38:07.940

We haven't changed. And Caroline, do you want to say your name first? My name's Caroline Poland. And how did you hear about Greenland?

00:38:10.000 - 00:38:20.020

I heard about Greenland. I can't quite remember exactly what happened when. I was a part of a group called Sheffield Won't Group, Sheffield Won't, which was Sheffield opposed to the nuclear threat.

00:38:21.160 - 00:38:32.860

So I think we... I think it was... My son was born in December 1982. I think he was just nine months old when I went down on the...

00:38:32.860 - 00:38:36.480

I think it was called Embrace the Base. Yeah. It was with bolt cutters. Yeah.

00:38:37.100 - 00:38:43.640

So we all had big bolt cutters. So I was part of... So I went with the group, Women Opposed, the Sheffield Won't Group.

00:38:45.420 - 00:39:00.300

And we had our big bolt cutters. And so, yeah, I was busy cutting the fence down and being on friends' shoulders and cutting the fence down. And then I got arrested, so I got pulled into the base,

00:39:01.900 - 00:39:13.260

first by the police and then by the army, and then put handcuffs on, those zip handcuffs. And the idea is if you're arrested, they weren't meant to say anything, wasn't it?

00:39:13.320 - 00:39:24.220

You had to keep quiet. So anyway, they took me in the base and they didn't know how to undo them. So they had to use my bolt cutters to undo them.

00:39:25.620 - 00:39:31.740

And I was just, like, trying to keep quiet then. I was just, like, hilarious. Yeah. So...

00:39:31.740 - 00:39:40.620

But my son was only... Tom was only ten months old, I suppose. So I was only going down for the day, which took longer because of being arrested.

00:39:42.120 - 00:39:54.280

Obviously, my friends were waiting outside. But then we, along with a lot of other women, got charged, quite a serious charge. So it was conspiracy to commit criminal damage,

00:39:54.480 - 00:40:01.500

which is... Conspiracy is always worse than the actual doing of it, which I can never quite understand. About the conspiring.

00:40:03.080 - 00:40:15.320

So I think that was... That has a ridiculous potential sentence, if you get done for that. So one of the other women in it, who was also a solicitor,

00:40:15.320 - 00:40:26.300

so at the time she just, like, put a different jacket on or something. So we were kind of defending ourselves, so she was defending me.

00:40:26.380 - 00:40:36.160

So I had to go down a few more times because of appearing in court. So I think I did... I think I did stay over once. I can't remember it terribly well, actually.

00:40:36.820 - 00:40:44.700

All that... A lot of that time gets to be a blur, especially when you've got young children. And what court was it that you were at?

00:40:44.700 - 00:40:52.700

It must have been in Newbury, but... OK. Yeah, it was in Newbury. So there was that, and then there was quite a...

00:40:54.140 - 00:41:04.700

Where's it gone? I found it. I looked for ages for this, actually. I found the criminal charge sheet, but also...

00:41:05.880 - 00:41:13.260

It was in the Guardian. It said... One takes one's hat off to the technological genius behind the cruise missile.

00:41:13.260 - 00:41:26.340

The handcuff, of course, is quite a different matter. One of the Greenland protesters arrested over the weekend was placed by the US Army personnel in a pair of American-designed cuffs

00:41:26.340 - 00:41:37.100

and driven inside the base to await the arrival of the British boys in blue. When the time came for her to be released, neither the US Army or the British police force

00:41:37.100 - 00:41:50.180

could work out how to undo the cuffs. And she was only released due to the dexterous use of the women's own bolt cutters. Anyway, it goes on a bit there.

00:41:50.960 - 00:42:03.880

I just thought it was funny. And then I went to a few other times. And I think after... After 84, during 84, 85,

00:42:04.060 - 00:42:21.180

there was, like Betty and I were saying, there were a lot of Greenham women supporting the strike. And after that, we did this series of Women Make Links postcards, which were four to do with Greenham

00:42:21.180 - 00:42:37.800

and then four to do with women against pit closures. So that's, like, an early thing of women being involved, opposing, supporting them in the pit in Wales. And that's aspecting and treating.

00:42:38.160 - 00:42:49.360

And that's an American woman's mind. So we were trying... Sorry. What did you call that woman who had come to our pit camp? She was really tall, with grey hair.

00:42:50.340 - 00:43:01.660

And she was at Memphis Illinois. Not May. She'd come to our pit camp quite often. From Greenham?

00:43:02.020 - 00:43:07.940

Yeah, yeah. And she was at Menworth Hill. Not Leslie. In that caravan.

00:43:08.220 - 00:43:16.340

Oh, I can't remember the name. Because they went to Menworth Hill then, you know. They did, yeah. Because our Thomas, I went with Sandra Hutchinson

00:43:16.940 - 00:43:28.520

for three years to Menworth Hill because they had a date. And when our Thomas came... Because they taught our Thomas how to do them drums.

00:43:28.980 - 00:43:41.400

Oh, yeah. Gosh, that woman's name evades me. Oh, it's so hard to remember her name. She was awarded some kind of award in America

00:43:41.400 - 00:43:46.760

and they refused to give it her. And wasn't she Welsh? And she was one of the original... Very tall, yeah.

00:43:46.820 - 00:43:51.800

Yeah. She was, yeah. She had a really nice laugh. She was always there at Menworth Hill.

00:43:53.320 - 00:44:02.140

And I used to go with Sandra. I can remember our Thomas going. He'd be about five, six and seven. We went three years running, me and Sandra.

00:44:02.140 - 00:44:10.180

And we took him. You know, because we took him out of school, they let him come out of school because they said... It's part of his education.

00:44:10.900 - 00:44:16.920

Yeah, yeah. That's how they did it, you know. They did a very good teacher, didn't they? Yeah.

00:44:18.260 - 00:44:27.460

Lovely, lovely guy. For me, it was... When I saw that this project was there, I think somebody sent me an email about it,

00:44:27.480 - 00:44:36.820

I thought... It just felt really important that, you know, obviously without 1984, without the one-year strike

00:44:36.820 - 00:44:45.000

and being involved in Women Against Pit Closures, but also without Greenham, that we wouldn't have... The pit camps wouldn't have happened

00:44:45.000 - 00:44:51.140

without those two things. No, no, I don't think they would. So I really wanted that to be part of this Greenham story. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:44:51.140 - 00:45:02.940

And to, as you said, like, record the history of Women Against Pit Closures. So I think I first met... I think me and Fliss came to the...

00:45:02.940 - 00:45:10.760

When you set up the first Barnsley meeting, we came to that at the beginning, and then Sheffield was set up, and then we got involved with Sheffield.

00:45:14.360 - 00:45:21.220

Yeah, so... And did you make friends at Greenham? I mean, I... I don't think...

00:45:23.220 - 00:45:27.180

Well, it's somebody John's. Helen John. Helen John. Helen John.

00:45:27.900 - 00:45:34.080

Now I know that name, yeah. Yeah, I can... She wasn't... She couldn't quite do it, didn't she?

00:45:34.460 - 00:45:39.600

Yeah. I knew it wasn't... It would have been... It must have been very difficult

00:45:39.600 - 00:45:55.740

for you having a small one. Yeah. I mean, I did some crazy things with Tom, I think. But I didn't take him down there,

00:45:55.740 - 00:46:06.540

so it was, yeah, it was kind of limited what we could do. And then my daughter was born in 87, so that period of time, she...

00:46:06.540 - 00:46:17.040

I mean, they both really enjoyed the pit camp. They've got really good memories of it. It's quite an important part. You know, Dave and his history,

00:46:18.120 - 00:46:26.140

the Faircroft pit and everything, and I mean, Tom's... They know that they were wheeled around and, you know, like...

00:46:26.140 - 00:46:34.560

Well, Tom was in the push chair when he was 84, 85, so he went on lots of demonstrations, obviously. But they both remember the pit camp really well, yeah.

00:46:35.580 - 00:46:50.200

Somebody came, I'm sure they came to our pit camp, and she'd been pregnant when they had 485 strike and taking my little lump on the picket line. Yeah, she was so proud of that,

00:46:50.300 - 00:46:57.260

that she'd taken her little lump on the picket line. Yeah. Yeah, it's really important. And Caroline, what did it mean to you

00:46:57.260 - 00:47:08.740

that Greenham was a women-only space? I mean, I agree with what Anne was saying earlier in the sense that the pit camp we had was a women's pit camp,

00:47:08.900 - 00:47:24.240

but we were really involved, like... The men and the minors were really a part of it. But I think just women... I suppose, I mean, I...

00:47:24.240 - 00:47:33.780

Just thinking, like, you know, brought up... I mean, I'll be 70 this year, and brought up in the era we were brought up in, and what expectations were for women

00:47:34.660 - 00:47:44.920

was always less what women would do, what kind of jobs you would do, and, you know, I went back to do A-levels in education, yeah. So we kind of...

00:47:45.680 - 00:48:02.260

And it took me, you know, a long time, I think, to see what feminism was about, and to feel that I was a feminist. And, you know, actually to really value the company of women.

00:48:02.440 - 00:48:10.900

I mean, I can remember that first time I just... In the early 70s, I was just going out for a meal, and it was just with women friends, and I got home, and I thought, I've had a really good time!

00:48:11.460 - 00:48:20.680

You know? So just that whole thing, and, you know, like, expectations of... you know, of us at that age,

00:48:20.800 - 00:48:32.680

of what we would do, and, you know, when I worked in an office and things. So kind of just... believing in women and what women could do

00:48:32.680 - 00:48:46.540

was, like, really important to me. So I think that this was something that women were doing it, and were doing it in, you know, maybe in a different way than if you had lots of men involved.

00:48:46.540 - 00:48:54.660

I think that is true. We, you know, didn't just have a pit camp. We had a social camp. Yeah.

00:48:55.160 - 00:49:07.900

Yeah, everybody could. There was a man who used to come with his family from about six o'clock, while I ate, go up, check everyone,

00:49:08.300 - 00:49:16.140

and then come back, of course, by stage, by stage, with his girlfriend. It all happened to be his wife's sister. Oh, that's awesome.

00:49:16.200 - 00:49:27.200

Yeah. I don't think that's what we set out to support, though. No, but I'm saying, it just wasn't enough. And can you remember that woman who left a baby?

00:49:27.940 - 00:49:38.240

That young one. And Sandra left to take her into care. I think you were found out in pit camp like we found at Groundhog, though.

00:49:40.600 - 00:49:50.640

You couldn't get the support of the local women, because they were still in that time warp. The women stayed at home, cooked, cleaned, looked after kids.

00:49:51.440 - 00:50:03.740

And I know one night, I can remember that the Groundhog women said they'd come and sleep in the pit camp for the night, which was lovely. But they took a bottle or two, and they were enjoying it

00:50:03.740 - 00:50:12.380

and having a good time, till somebody banged on the door and screamed, you're not here to enjoy yourself. So they didn't come back after that.

00:50:12.380 - 00:50:30.080

But it was a shame, because we'd got us women here that had done H4, H5 in the pit camp. These women were probably little kids, H4, H5. And so they were, if you like, in a different time warp.

00:50:31.040 - 00:50:42.240

And I think you were found the same at home. I mean, there were some, you know, there were women like, you know, Dart and Tex from Bernsker,

00:50:44.480 - 00:50:54.760

and Jan from Goldthorpe, she worked at the Dern Valley Advice Centre. And I think they'd become politically active in 84, 85. So they were a really important part of it.

00:50:54.860 - 00:51:04.000

But yeah, you're right. And also, I suppose, Hampton Pit's not really a central part of the village, is it? So the men that worked there came from all over as well.

00:51:04.000 - 00:51:16.820

But you know that thing about, like, if you don't organise it so there is some fun as well. You can't stay the course, can you? No, you've got to have that, really.

00:51:17.820 - 00:51:26.060

Yeah, and I think that's, I do think that's probably a difference, that women do think more like that, you know. And did you see that at Greenham as well,

00:51:26.080 - 00:51:33.640

kind of with all the artistic stuff that was going on? But also even the Embrace the Base was colourful and fun. Yeah, yeah. And imaginative, really,

00:51:33.840 - 00:51:49.820

and just doing things in a bit of a different way. There were women coming from all over, weren't there, to support us, and men. And we had, and even women who weren't on television,

00:51:50.100 - 00:52:00.500

what they're called, they used to come up to us. You know, women of colour. And then, obviously, then they all come from the village. You know, it was...

00:52:00.500 - 00:52:12.580

Can you remember the day when Charlie Williams came? Charlie came, and he sort of stood at the top, where Pet Cump was standing, and he just screamed, Ah, it's Charlie's Angel!

00:52:12.980 - 00:52:31.580

And came running down to us, yeah. Yeah, we were Charlie's Angels, aren't we? We were management, there were bookers with us. You know, and we were asked to finish a call on all sorts.

00:52:32.240 - 00:52:49.000

And we did all sorts of nasty things. Anyway, they were all going and occupying managers' offices and that. So anyway, the police come, and they said, Look, when you go in the office, you lock it.

00:52:49.460 - 00:53:01.760

And when you come round, you lock it. Because we're not going to fetch them lasses out of here anymore, we'll leave them in. So anyway, we had this caravan,

00:53:03.100 - 00:53:15.240

and kids had been pulling strips of it. And Mr Logan, one of the managers, he always just said to us, Hit me, hit me.

00:53:15.440 - 00:53:24.260

Go on, hit me. Hit me, hit me. Because he was so angry. Yeah, he hit me.

00:53:25.020 - 00:53:36.880

So anyway, it was Monday morning, and I was stripping, pulling things. Caravan, it was a special group, and they were coming to pick it up.

00:53:37.080 - 00:53:47.220

I hadn't got to put it dusting in there. Anyway, he went in his office, and I went and stuffed a tonne of it, keyhole, and left a bunch going.

00:53:47.440 - 00:53:58.040

Don't forget that. We had a great security guard, actually, at Houghton. He was used to pin the door open at night time for the toilet.

00:53:59.040 - 00:54:09.120

Was he OK? He was, he was great, actually. I think the NUM branch at Houghton was really supportive, which was good.

00:54:09.480 - 00:54:24.100

But they mostly didn't live in that village, because it was a pit where people came from lots of different places, really. But that thing you were mentioning earlier, really,

00:54:24.280 - 00:54:39.100

about, for Greenham and for our pit camp, really, about women coming from all sorts of different places, and how much you trust people, where they've come from, and what they're standing for,

00:54:39.820 - 00:54:55.680

and also whose pit camp it is. So I think all those tensions and potential lack of trust is something you have to work through, don't you? And I think, you know, because in a way,

00:54:55.800 - 00:55:06.500

if you're there 24 hours, seven days a week, you either work through it or you don't. You either build up that sort of trust in people, which I think did happen at Houghton.

00:55:06.500 - 00:55:20.100

You all did a lot at night, didn't you? Yeah, me and the kids used to stay at night. Yeah, because I was looking after my mum. I was going to uni, you know, so early mornings were OK,

00:55:20.400 - 00:55:33.860

but the rest of the day seemed to be taken up, so I used to do a lot of nights, yeah. Because Maureen Stubbins and Derek used to come. They used to come nights, and somebody always made sure

00:55:33.860 - 00:55:47.580

there were a few bottles at the top. We used to get the milk when you used to come down and deliver. But then also, like, when the men were signing on for days, day shifts, which would be about three o'clock in the morning,

00:55:48.060 - 00:55:57.740

they'd fill up the brazier, and they'd throw a light, and say, you all right in there? So it was like about, you know, like you're saying, it was about doing that together,

00:55:57.880 - 00:56:08.880

but it was still a women's pit camp, and that was important. And would you say, Caroline, for you, that the inspiration came from Greenham, like being at Greenham and seeing how it worked?

00:56:10.420 - 00:56:23.140

Well, yeah, like I was saying, I think we all think that if Greenham hadn't have happened, well, if the women against pit closures hadn't been set up and did that whole year and beyond,

00:56:24.420 - 00:56:33.100

if that hadn't happened and Greenham hadn't happened, the pit camps would not have happened. No, certainly wouldn't. So, you know, it had to be both, really,

00:56:33.340 - 00:56:46.180

like, you know, without the kind of amazing... I think, although we used to go down to Greenham a lot during the strike, didn't we? I think 92, 93 brought us even closer to the group.

00:56:46.180 - 00:56:54.800

Yeah, definitely. Because they used to come to our pit camp and stay, they'd stay two or three nights, and during that time, then, you'd sit round the brazier,

00:56:54.960 - 00:57:05.240

chatting and what have you, and you felt that you were in your own environment, didn't you? Going to Greenham, screaming and shouting, and them being so gentle and quiet.

00:57:05.660 - 00:57:22.080

Yeah, yeah. And, Karen, in terms of non-violent direct action, how did you feel that worked for you when you were at Greenham? Um...

00:57:23.640 - 00:57:30.740

Um... I just think, like, non-violent direct action, imaginative action's brilliant. LAUGHTER

00:57:32.600 - 00:57:41.440

And, um... And is it something you took forward in your activism as well, the ideas that you got there, or the ideas that you saw there? Um...

00:57:42.780 - 00:57:54.680

Yes. Yeah, definitely. I mean, I think a lot of my politics were shaped in the 1970s, really, and that I, um...

00:57:54.680 - 00:58:04.260

You're allowed to have a boo for somebody coming from the south. LAUGHTER But, you know, I was brought up on the edge of London, really. And I lived in Brixton in the 1970s

00:58:04.800 - 00:58:14.640

and involved very much in community-based action, you know, working in the community. And, um... So, you know, just seeing a lot...

00:58:14.640 - 00:58:24.820

the violence of the National Front, actually, and the police, the Metropolitan Police, I had my eyes massively opened in that... in my 20s, massively opened.

00:58:25.820 - 00:58:36.760

I learnt more than I could possibly describe, really. Um... So, but I, you know, I also... You know, I can remember being in Lewisham

00:58:36.760 - 00:58:48.140

and the National Front march and the police on horsebacks, and then there was bricks being thrown from all directions. I thought, I'm sure there's something better to do. You know what I mean?

00:58:48.820 - 00:58:58.720

Like, just, you know, um... And I think, you know, those ideas and... You know, like, what could we do at all grief? Was there something more, you know...

00:58:58.720 - 00:59:08.020

How could we take over the road? Things that actually we didn't manage to do then. But I just think that, um... Just being more imaginative

00:59:08.500 - 00:59:25.220

and doing things that are direct action, but I think probably are ways that women look to look for a bit more, generally speaking. And Caroline, in terms of when you went to court as well,

00:59:25.460 - 00:59:39.480

did you have a reaction from the local residents there? I honestly can't remember. I know there was a lot of anonymosity, wasn't there, from locally, against screening women.

00:59:39.480 - 00:59:52.760

Were there women in the court with you as well? Well, the rest of the group came down to support me. And then it was, like, negotiated. I think they then reduced the charge eventually

00:59:52.760 - 01:00:01.480

to something which was just criminal damage. Yeah. But I can't remember. Were you scared when it was happening?

01:00:02.740 - 01:00:11.820

What, at the court, or being arrested? Yeah, the whole thing. I think I felt very... I knew that nobody would forget me.

01:00:12.640 - 01:00:21.160

LAUGHTER I'm probably great, you know, but I needed to get home at some point. LAUGHTER

01:00:21.640 - 01:00:30.400

Because it got really boring, really, because you were stuck in there for hours and hours and hours. And, you know, eventually people started singing. I can't seem to save my life, I don't know if I really want to.

01:00:31.240 - 01:00:42.780

And then you have to keep going back to court, so it gets... But, yeah, I felt like that thing about being in a group of people, women that you know really well, and you know there's no way they're going to forget you.

01:00:43.140 - 01:00:50.560

So, no, it wasn't really me. I think that's the way we felt when we used to do things that we shouldn't do. We were women together.

01:00:50.800 - 01:01:02.480

We'll do it, we'll get you. The men can't do it, so we'll do it. We're not scared of them. And in terms of the collective nature of decisions at Greenham,

01:01:02.480 - 01:01:17.220

did you see any of that happening, or did you take any of the ideas from that to future campaigns? I don't know. I think in a way, you know,

01:01:17.300 - 01:01:35.660

a lot of the things that I felt became really important to me and that I learned was very much in the 1970s, actually, you know, including, you know, just a lot of funny stories. I mean, understanding police brutality and police lives.

01:01:35.740 - 01:01:46.780

I could tell you some stories, but they're not really relevant. But they had a big influence on me, really. I'm a big part of the collective housing project and the squatting project,

01:01:46.920 - 01:01:58.100

so there were lots of things, homelessness and stuff, that was going on then that I learned a lot. So, in a way, Greenham was... I mean, I suppose, you know,

01:01:58.100 - 01:02:09.440

I think that, I mean, these postcards were, you know, about trying to kind of build the links, saying, like, what women were doing in Greenham and what women against pick closures were doing.

01:02:09.840 - 01:02:18.520

You know, there was lots of... We wanted to celebrate those links. Yeah. It's a bit like that programme, never the twain shall meet.

01:02:18.780 - 01:02:24.180

You were all so quiet and gentle. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

01:02:24.720 - 01:02:39.740

And why do you think that's so important? No, just, you know... Just thinking about, you know... Well, obviously, you were telling a story about, you know,

01:02:39.780 - 01:02:51.340

that woman coming out from Greenham and taking over. I mean, obviously, there's lots of different people who have different kinds of... ..understanding.

01:02:51.340 - 01:03:03.420

Or, you know, different things are important to them. You know, so that woman obviously had no level of understanding or, you know, that it wasn't her pit camp of things. But just, you know...

01:03:03.420 - 01:03:18.280

And people, you know, actually coming together about things. Whether people still hold to their politics of social justice and things when they're ten years older or something, that's when you start to know, don't you,

01:03:18.320 - 01:03:30.620

whether people are still, you know, hold those views in their 20s and 30s or 40s, and, you know, in their 70s and 80s. You know, yeah, we are still saying the same things.

01:03:30.660 - 01:03:35.720

That's important to me. I'm worse now than I was before. I don't care what they do to me. Yeah.

01:03:35.940 - 01:03:44.680

After they strip-searched me, I felt that I can't do nothing. Well, you've got a level of confidence, can't you, that you can do these things?

01:03:44.680 - 01:03:53.420

Right. Yeah. So I still believe the things I believed in the 70s and 80s. Like, just me.

01:03:53.820 - 01:04:08.320

Yeah. But anyway. I can't remember what your question was. I mean, I think that's...

01:04:08.320 - 01:04:14.400

For me, it's really important. It's bloody hard work sometimes. LAUGHTER Oh, yeah.

01:04:15.420 - 01:04:27.080

But I do think that's... I do think it's important, and... In the end, there's, you know, bringing more people in and doing things together

01:04:29.160 - 01:04:40.720

is a better way of doing things, you know. There's more people around at the end fighting. I felt a greener sort of... There would be a group at each gate.

01:04:40.720 - 01:04:51.580

A group at each gate. But everybody was there for the same thing. There wasn't any division. It was just lovely that, you know,

01:04:51.640 - 01:05:00.520

every gate had a group of women that belonged on that gate. Yeah. Yeah. And what do you think the reason is

01:05:00.520 - 01:05:11.280

that something, say, like the suffrage movement, has been remembered and canonised in history, whereas Greenham and your women against the clergy kind of hasn't in the same way?

01:05:12.300 - 01:05:17.440

I mean, I'm sure class is... Yeah. ..fairly relevant. Yeah.

01:05:19.660 - 01:05:29.280

And it's obviously a lot of working-class history gets lost, doesn't it? Mm-hm. So I think that's really important.

01:05:29.320 - 01:05:42.660

I mean, I suppose there was that sort of split between the suffragists and the suffragettes, wasn't there? So there were clearly, like, some very active working-class women

01:05:42.660 - 01:06:03.720

in the movement for women's emancipation and the vote. And I suppose some of those stories have been given more publicity than they were, but... Yeah.

01:06:04.420 - 01:06:14.720

So I think that's probably the big... What's she saying? You see... I mean, although the year-long miners' strike, in a way,

01:06:15.820 - 01:06:26.420

has become an incredibly important part of history, hasn't it? Yeah. And actually...

01:06:26.420 - 01:06:40.360

The women against the clergy, for that year, I think probably there has been a lot written about. I think the fact that actually a lot of us came back together again seven years later has had very little written about it,

01:06:40.500 - 01:06:49.060

which is why we want to keep telling that story, that we're not there to go away, you know? Do you think... I mean, I say we in a general thing,

01:06:49.140 - 01:07:00.120

cos, you know, my personal... You know, I mean... I mean, David and I have been together for nearly 40 years, and his background is clearly a mining background.

01:07:00.120 - 01:07:13.900

He goes back to the Welsh mining... But mine isn't, you know, and I'm not pretending. I would never pretend otherwise. During the strike, three women photographers came up from London,

01:07:14.800 - 01:07:27.580

and they went into different areas, and one was called Raisa Page. She's dead now, but she came into South Yorkshire, and she took a photograph down at Woolley Corrie on Low Row

01:07:28.060 - 01:07:42.620

of some kids stood there. And if you didn't know, you'd think that was in the 80s. It's a sad photo, but it's brilliant to think that people thought that was all gone now,

01:07:42.680 - 01:07:47.680

and this is what our community's doing now. This is what we're fighting against. Yeah.